tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5468858293961151587.post520688271170472874..comments2023-08-19T08:21:42.894-04:00Comments on Cedar's Mountain: Things That Make You Say, "Why Should I?"G. B. Millerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09783331838434598963noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5468858293961151587.post-40577968936344214402013-08-23T06:17:22.414-04:002013-08-23T06:17:22.414-04:00Snaggle: Common sense is a dirty phrase for guv...Snaggle: Common sense is a dirty phrase for guv'ts to use.G. B. Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09783331838434598963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5468858293961151587.post-56607369078031592242013-08-23T03:58:38.611-04:002013-08-23T03:58:38.611-04:00Maybe there should be a way to put up a sign about...Maybe there should be a way to put up a sign about their religious service preference to make it not illegal? Just a common sense idea. Snaggle Toothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07197042129309670471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5468858293961151587.post-71430955144756112142013-08-22T06:32:20.209-04:002013-08-22T06:32:20.209-04:00Joe: Let me ask you this, why is it that if you do...Joe: Let me ask you this, why is it that if you don't like homosexuality or even something like gay marriage, you're automatically labeled a homophobe (or worse)?<br /><br />M: Because sometimes it better to pick and choose your battles.<br /><br />And you're still trying to take a state law and make it supercede the Constitution/Bill of Rights.<br /><br />And so what if they voiced G. B. Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09783331838434598963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5468858293961151587.post-71882428254358765052013-08-22T02:03:08.131-04:002013-08-22T02:03:08.131-04:00I agree with Joey's "What else is a sin?&...I agree with Joey's "What else is a sin?" point.<br /><br />I actually work with several loudly against gay right persons who I'm surprised aren't chastised for loudly declaring things like "It's wrong," n "It isin't natural" (Gay marriage laws). I'm betting if any gays were in earshot, there would definitely be a lawsuit against the company.<Snaggle Toothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07197042129309670471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5468858293961151587.post-21030227334574508352013-08-22T01:29:48.714-04:002013-08-22T01:29:48.714-04:00So you said "Didn't say I find that parti...So you said "Didn't say I find that particular behavior acceptable, which I don't. I was merely answering your point with a counterpoint."<br /><br />You don't think it's acceptable to to be racist, we've agreed on that, but you do think it's acceptable to be homophobic. LL Cool Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13916666100971008775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5468858293961151587.post-69835066212239823122013-08-21T22:31:17.259-04:002013-08-21T22:31:17.259-04:00This isn't practicing their religion - it'...This isn't practicing their religion - it's not a church. It's a business and just like they can't deny an interracial couple service, they can't deny a gay couple service. They also told the couple, in an unsolicited comment, that their relationship was "an abomination." The state's law is the same as saying you can't refuse to serve someone just because Riot Kittyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02725825736285347870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5468858293961151587.post-31653816157682116082013-08-21T19:41:12.613-04:002013-08-21T19:41:12.613-04:00Joe: Didn't say I find that particular behavio...Joe: Didn't say I find that particular behavior acceptable, which I don't. I was merely answering your point with a counterpoint.<br /><br />In the long run, if you don't want to patronize a particular business because they run it to a set of values that you may not like, that's fine.<br /><br />But don't threaten a family, their livelihood or tell them that this is how it hasG. B. Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09783331838434598963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5468858293961151587.post-88019165360098923822013-08-21T09:32:15.384-04:002013-08-21T09:32:15.384-04:00"Some people actually do run their business h..."Some people actually do run their business here in the States as "whites only", and no amount of protests/threats/fines will get them to change it."<br /><br />And do you think that behaviour acceptable? LL Cool Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13916666100971008775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5468858293961151587.post-64556895641997448232013-08-21T06:21:01.558-04:002013-08-21T06:21:01.558-04:00Joe: Some people actually do run their business he...Joe: Some people actually do run their business here in the States as "whites only", and no amount of protests/threats/fines will get them to change it.<br /><br />As for your other example, I think that is stretching it just a bit, as I don't think you would actually offer up the fact that you're transgender to anyone. Is it anyone's business to know who you really are?<br G. B. Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09783331838434598963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5468858293961151587.post-10599820995447184692013-08-21T06:12:45.057-04:002013-08-21T06:12:45.057-04:00I would have just sold them the cake, but that'...I would have just sold them the cake, but that's just my opinion. I work for a place that has uneven rules about who we will do business with. Example: a firearms manufacturer (yes), a local Muslim mosque (no.) I'd rather see that in reverse. :) Lynnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13984802196897920610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5468858293961151587.post-45226881555392647712013-08-21T03:00:50.248-04:002013-08-21T03:00:50.248-04:00Interesting that you mention Hobby Lobby, and I re...Interesting that you mention Hobby Lobby, and I really love the store. The one near our house in AZ has a incredibly camp, adorable gay man working there. He's great with with customers. But very "out there" if you know what I mean. Now I know they run their business on religious principles, and they seem to have no issue employing a gay man. <br /><br />You say "Whether you LL Cool Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13916666100971008775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5468858293961151587.post-56684398051647342872013-08-20T18:45:50.174-04:002013-08-20T18:45:50.174-04:00M: With all due respect to you, the state has it w...M: With all due respect to you, the state has it wrong. You cannot decide to ignore a fundamental right for people to practice their religion as they see fit. Whether you agree with it or not, people can and do run their businesses as they see fit.<br /><br />If they want to run their business on religious principles (i.e. Hobby Lobby) what right do you and I have to tell them otherwise?G. B. Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09783331838434598963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5468858293961151587.post-72509765793786279092013-08-20T13:35:45.093-04:002013-08-20T13:35:45.093-04:00My state has decided that discrimination is not a ...My state has decided that discrimination is not a First Amendment right. They can't refuse to sell a cake to a gay couple just like they can't refuse to sell a cake to an interracial couple, or a minority, or anyone else they think is "sinning." And I just hate it when people try to drag God into this. Riot Kittyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02725825736285347870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5468858293961151587.post-25125508308388249662013-08-20T06:19:00.618-04:002013-08-20T06:19:00.618-04:00Joe: Excellent points, but I can't speak for w...Joe: Excellent points, but I can't speak for what their actual mindset when it comes to what you've suggested. I would suggest that they did what because the couple in question probably presented themselves as a lesbian couple loooking to get married and they needed a wedding cake.<br /><br />But for me, I certainly don't go around asking people what they've done or what their G. B. Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09783331838434598963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5468858293961151587.post-63590145401342847612013-08-20T02:04:41.633-04:002013-08-20T02:04:41.633-04:00I wonder if the bakery refused to make cakes for p...I wonder if the bakery refused to make cakes for people that were getting remarried or living together because according to the Bible that's a sin too. Would they refuse to make a cake for a woman that didn't cover her head when she entered the store, or one that was wearing jeans, because that's a sin too. Oh would they make a cake for a female preacher? I bet they would, well LL Cool Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13916666100971008775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5468858293961151587.post-585270149477421242013-08-19T22:18:11.071-04:002013-08-19T22:18:11.071-04:00M: So in your opinion state law trumps 1st amendme...M: So in your opinion state law trumps 1st amendment rights? To be honest with you, I don't think what the bakery did was illegal. They chose not to serve a gay couple because they believe that homosexuality is a sin.<br /><br />You shouldn't be able to force someone to compromise their beliefs just because you pass a law saying so.G. B. Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09783331838434598963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5468858293961151587.post-57244355407139842212013-08-19T22:00:30.729-04:002013-08-19T22:00:30.729-04:00I live here and I've followed this closely. Th...I live here and I've followed this closely. They're offering business services to the public, and they chose not to serve a gay couple, which is illegal. Is it OK to be an extremist on either side? No. But the bulk of the people in this state don't make death threats of any kind.<br /><br />Avakian is not a jackass. When he was our state senator in my district, he was very good at Riot Kittyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02725825736285347870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5468858293961151587.post-19835229936962551572013-08-19T19:15:31.904-04:002013-08-19T19:15:31.904-04:00G.A.: I read about that too. Supposedly the store ...G.A.: I read about that too. Supposedly the store didn't have the bag in a color that she was looking for or some such nonsense.<br /><br />In any event, when you cry wolf so many times, people eventually stop taking you seriously.<br /><br />Joe: I stand corrected. I shouldn't paint the entire gay community with the widest brush possible.<br /><br />But honestly, you shouldn't be G. B. Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09783331838434598963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5468858293961151587.post-73450687504263447312013-08-19T14:37:19.219-04:002013-08-19T14:37:19.219-04:00In Canada, this would not be seen as a free speech...In Canada, this would not be seen as a free speech or freedom of religion issue. If you offer services to the public, you must do so without discrimination. That's the real issue. Of course, threats and violence are not to be condoned as a response to discrimination. But they don't justify the initial discrimination either.Debra She Who Seekshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01845703092794695023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5468858293961151587.post-7734005533018438392013-08-19T13:10:28.455-04:002013-08-19T13:10:28.455-04:00"... it seems to be the only way that the gay..."... it seems to be the only way that the gay community wants to play."<br /><br />Not the whole gay community, you get extremists in every walk of life. <br /><br />Unfortunately in life if you do make a stand, whatever your beliefs you will always then be open to attack. The owners of the bakery took that risk. <br /><br />I'm sad about the outcome but not surprised. <br /><br />LL Cool Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13916666100971008775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5468858293961151587.post-79395482173112879442013-08-19T07:28:23.760-04:002013-08-19T07:28:23.760-04:00I felt the same way about Oprah recently when she ...I felt the same way about Oprah recently when she raised a stink outside the United States crying racism over a purse a clerk would not show her in a Zurich Boutique. She said she did not want to name the store but of course the press follows her everywhere and the tale brought great publicity to the store and the owner is fighting back. I was shocked and very ashamed of Oprah Winfrey for this Granny Anniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18165058412950953296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5468858293961151587.post-4279921975067458172013-08-19T06:21:30.665-04:002013-08-19T06:21:30.665-04:00Debra: Let me answer your question with a question...Debra: Let me answer your question with a question: Do you feel that it's right to threaten a family, issue death threats and destroy a livelihood just because you don't agree with their first amendment right to freedom of speech?<br /><br />Charles: They stated that they believe that homosexuality is a sin and thus to sell something to the couple would be going against their religious G. B. Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09783331838434598963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5468858293961151587.post-89015444116499274192013-08-19T03:09:35.176-04:002013-08-19T03:09:35.176-04:00There have been several similar case in the UK in ...There have been several similar case in the UK in the last couple of years - Christian couples who refused to have gay couples in their bed and breakfast accommodation. In the cases I recall they both went to court and the bed and breakfast owners both lost. (I think though that after losing appeals they are now both waiting to be heard in the UK Supreme court.)There was a lot of publicity in theJane Turleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01441332018679664175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5468858293961151587.post-75520879754920647922013-08-19T02:57:14.027-04:002013-08-19T02:57:14.027-04:00Wow, that's certainly over the top it seems to...Wow, that's certainly over the top it seems to me to take it that far. Personally, I don't know why they wouldn't have sold the couple a cake. But seeing as they didn't, then people need to move along. They don't have to buy from them, but death threats is pretty ridiculous.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5468858293961151587.post-30636139150325465962013-08-18T22:23:53.154-04:002013-08-18T22:23:53.154-04:00Would you have the same opinion if a business offe...Would you have the same opinion if a business offering its services to the public refused to serve a black person, a jew or a woman on religious grounds?Debra She Who Seekshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01845703092794695023noreply@blogger.com